The Last 1859 over 8, or That Final Wide 9

It came this week.  The last 1859 over 8 that I needed to complete my set.  According to “The 1858 Cents of Provincial Canada, Vol. II”  by Rob Turner, there are 12 known different reverses and 13 known different obverses that make up a set of wide 9 over 8’s.  They combine to yield 18 coin pairings.  That is a complete set.  Charlton highlighted 3 of this group in 65 Edition, in the large cent variety section.

The coin that came this week is an RD8/OG2.  It was the last one I needed to complete the set.  It’s a nice one too!  I had only seen 1 other but I was not quick enough to snag it.  To get this one, I traded a scarce 1858 die pairing variety for it.  I think that trading may well be a great avenue to secure some of the scarcer die pairings.  I like to keep traders of the more difficult coins from any given year.  In doing so, I have coins to trade with that someone may well need and want.  This takes me back years to when I was a kid with a mitt full of hockey cards.  Playing “got ‘em, got ‘em, need ‘em” in the school playground before school started, trading for the more difficult cards to get, all the while chewing on a huge wad of gum.

Although my set is complete, a couple of the coins are lower grade so I’m still on the hunt for better examples for a few of them.  I’ll keep the hard to find ones and put them in my trader stash as I continue to upgrade the group.

I’ve become quite enamored with the wide 9 over 8’s as a group.  Besides the challenge of collecting the 12 reverses, there is lots happening on the obverse side of the coin.  Some of those obverses are also paired with 1858’s and 1859 narrow 9’s.  Turner has identified and published the obverses that match to the 58’s and Haxby, who is currently studying and publishing work on 1859’s, has identified and published 9/8 obverses that show up on narrow 9’s.  What an exciting group!  I’ll clearly extend my collection and push both to 58’s and narrow 9’s in order to obtain an example of each obverse die pairing across these groups.

If you are collecting 9/8’s the same way I am, let me know.  This is a fantastic series on which to cut some variety teeth.

Variety of the Month – 1900H

I was browsing through some back issues of the CN Journal the other day and re-read an article on the 1900H large cent.  This particular date has not received much attention from variety collectors since it is generally believed that there is little happening on either side of the coin with these lads.

In 1900, the royal mint split the mintage and 2.6 of the 3.6 million coins minted that year were contracted to Heaton to complete.  Here is where the interesting part comes into play.  Heaton hand stamped their little H into each of the working dies used that year.  Since this was hand stamped, the H is never exactly in the same place.  It moves around enough that you can easily pick out differences with a 10x loupe.

Here is a little research project for you.  How many different reverse working dies can you identify?  Now don’t shy away, this will actually be a neat project to work on for several reasons:

First, this date is easily obtainable at very reasonable prices.  You can probably pick up VF-EF examples in the $5-15 dollar range.  I have found it best to stay at the VF+ level for this type of work.  Any more wear than that just frustrates the heck out of me when I can’t make a determination due to wear.

Second, these are readily available and there are lots of them, no one is hording them.

Third, you have a known starting point with the H.  The leaves and the denticles don’t move so they are your reference points.  Look at where the H is in relation to them.  Are there differences in the H itself?

Forth, You can supplement your reverse evaluation with secondary markers such as die cracks.  If the H is in a similar placement but the cracking is different, you have 2 different working dies.

Number your coins and keep good notes or you will find you are redoing the same evaluation over and over on the same coins.  Photographs always help.

A few examples are presented below so you can get the idea.  Give it a crack and dive a bit deeper into variety collecting by discovering and documenting these through your own efforts.  It is very rewarding to flesh out a group of coins that have previously been ignored. 

H is high left with the upper left serif of the H touching the tip of the lobe of the leaf.

H is far left with the top of the upper left serif touching the tip of the lobe of the leaf.  This actually looks like a bridge from a die chip.

H is high in relation to the tip of the leaf lobe.

H is even in relation to the tip of the leaf lobe. Note the die crack to the right of the H.

H is low and far from the leaf to the right.

H is low and far from the leaf to the right.  Note the die crack in the H.

Protecting Your Cash

I was at the Chicago Paper Money show yesterday.  This is always an intimidating experience for me, a large cent guy.  All that paper, all those choices, radars, sequential, devils faces, foxing, bleaching, washing, pressing, discrete folds, different signatures, prefixes, suffixes, and me a green as grass when it comes to that stuff.  My biggest fear is making a mistake and laying out too much cash for a common item.  It got me thinking, the same is true when you are starting to collect Vickies. 

I take it all in stride now, but we all started at some point.  I was wondering on the drive home, what are the items that have bubbled to the top for me in evaluating whether to bring a coin home or leave it were I found it.  There are so many things running through my head when I have a coin in hand.  I can sit at a table in any bourse, or coin shop and very quickly decide if a particular item is coming home with me or if it will continue to live in “foster care”.  This allows me to look at a lot of coins in a short period of time.

There is a lot of good advice out there and it can all swirl together when Vickie is staring at you, beckoning you to take her home.  Some of the clichés that abound and are all true are; by the book first, by the coin not the holder, start with the keys, by the highest grade your budget will allow, don’t buy problem coins, and the list goes on.  All good advice but when you are sitting at a table on the bourse and the coin is pleading with you, how do you decide what to do?

For me the first checkpoint I consider is the price on the holder.  No other information is relevant.  I don’t care if the coin is encased by the most or least respected third party grader (TPG), has nice typing on stickers, or is in a beat up old 2x2.  I don’t care if the coin is under glass, in a ratty old 3 ring binder or beautifully organized in double row red boxes.  The only info I consider is the price the vendor wants for the coin.  I go to price first, so I can quickly use my other criteria to make a decision.  My price point varies by year so I marry the asking price with the date on the coin, not the holder.  The price at this stage doesn’t matter; it is just an information point.

My second checkpoint is damage, cleaning, etc.  I try hard to leave scudzy coins where I find them.  This is my first decision making criteria.  Despite the price point, coins that are damaged, altered, corroded or that don’t have eye appeal go straight back where I found them for the most part.  If I am not variety hunting I move on to grade.  If I am looking for varieties, the coin will linger in my hand just a bit longer.  More on this point in a moment.

Next comes grade.  This I determine for myself.  Too many collectors are not good graders.  They accept TPG opinions without question.  They look at the grade on the 2x2 and accept that.  The vendor offers a verbal on the coin you have in your hand and it becomes an influencer.  Learning how to grade is probably the single most important skill you can develop.  You know more than you think.  The more coins you look at for a particular denomination, the better you get.  This skill is a must.  If the grade I determine the coin to be and the asking price of the coin jive in my mind, she is still a candidate to come home with me.  If not, back in the box she goes.  This step implies a price point.  I keep many in my head, but I also carry a copy of CCN Trends.  I have allowed my price point to slide in the past and have been disappointed when I look at the coin at home, under proper light, released from the original 2x2 etc.  I try hard not to talk myself into a purchase by allowing my price point to slide.

“Why this particular coin?” is my next question.  What are my collecting goals?  What am I after this trip?  Where will this fit into my collection?  Focus and discipline are key here.  If not, you’ll find yourself out of money very quickly without advancing your collection.  More coins do not a collection make.  If your goals involve accumulating and hoarding that’s OK.  If you are collecting, continue to exercise discipline.  Know what you want before you set foot on the bourse or in the shop.  So many coins to look at and so little cash in my pocket.  I need to make sure I’m spending on my focus, not my distraction.  I’m currently studying Obv. 1x coins so if the coin falls into that category, I may well buy her if she’s still in my hand after my grading exercise.  If I’m variety hunting outside my study group, say 1858 or 9 as example, I then take a closer look for the markers.  I’m continuing to only look at the coin.  What is written on the holder continues to be completely irrelevant.  To variety hunt you really need to either know the markers by heart, or have a good reference with you.  Don’t pay variety money on someone else’s attribution.  You need to be able to decide on your own.  Here is the only time where a cleaned coin or minor scratch coin might persuade me to consider it.

Critically evaluate your performance once you get home.  If you continue to be happy when you are looking at your purchases under your ideal home conditions, you have had a good day.  If not then you need to learn from the mistake and improve your decision tree for next time.  I have found that my spouse can help me here.  Her question of “What did you pay for that old cent?” is a great opportunity for me to explain my selection criteria.  If it passes muster, then Vickie is welcomed into her new home, if not she will get sold out of my collection and I’ll try again another day.

Being able to grade and determine varieties for yourself goes an incredibly long way to protecting your outlay of cash.  The more knowledge you possess the better you get at advancing your collection.  Develop your skill and stay focused.  Your collection will reward you with hours upon hours of enjoyment as you gaze into Victoria’s face.

It’s a Very Cool Coin, But…

I have this great 1859/8 that found its way to me a few weeks back.  I didn’t buy it on purpose; it was in a group of about 30 coins or so.  I often buy groups like this.  They keep me honest when I’m trying to establish the relative scarcity of varieties or die pairs.  It’s hard to have good numbers if you are constantly cherry picking, so I often buy groups.  The particular 1859, 9 over 8 in question was not identified up front, it was listed as a narrow 9.

I reached for Turners The 1858 Cents of Provincial Canada, Volume II where Rob documents each obverse, reverse and die pairing for the 1859/8’s.  It turns out to be an RD3/OA1.  The RD3 reverse is not that common but it’s not scarce either.  Rob has identified it as having coined about 5% of the overall 9/8 mintage.  The obverse on the other hand gets around a bit more.  The OA1 obverse has coined about 8% of the 9/8’s and is also paired up with 2 other overdate reverses.  Rob shows that this particular obverse is also associated with 3 different 1858 reverses, all of which are quite scarce.

Here’s the cool thing about this coin.  It has a cracked planchet that is so severe, it looks like the coin is going to break right in half!  As soon as I saw it I knew I would be keeping the coin.  The crack is right through, edge to edge, and shows clearly on both sides.  I’m not exactly sure what’s holding it together.  From the edge of the coin, the crack splits L3 in the middle, runs between the E of ONE and the T of CENT, splits the 5 and the 9, bisects L8 and out to the rim. Flipping the coin over we pick up the crack at the rim splitting the first A in CANADA, straight up Vicky’s neck, across her jaw, through her cheekbone,  exiting about mid nose, and on to split the A in VICTORIA and out to the edge.  This is a great break and it will make a great conversation piece. 

OK here’s the rub.  I’ll always have to describe the coin with the word “but”.  “Hey, have a look at this 9/8.  The planchet is seriously cracked. It’s very cool, but someone cleaned it.” I say.  Yeah that’s too bad. A great piece and a sought after die pair, what a shame” you lament.  “But that’s not all” I say, “look closer and you’ll see someone took what looks like an awl to the coin and marked it up, both sides”.  “Man, that’s too bad” you say, handing it back.

In this case I’m able to live with the “but”.  I didn’t put out 9/8 money for the coin.  It was a surprise in a bulk lot.  If I had however shelled out the cash for that coin individually, I can tell you that each time I looked at it, the cleaning and the defacing would bug me to the point that I wouldn’t show it to anyone.  Sooner or later I would get rid of it and be done with it.  How do I know this? It’s because I have bought coins in the past that had that effect on me.  I should have left them at the coin shop, show or walked away from the auction before I was high bidder.  I get no pleasure from a coin that I have to describe with the word “but”. 

I know a dealer that says there is an owner for even the most scudzy coin.  That might be so, but I’m trying hard to make sure it’s not me.  Leave those scudzy ones where you find them if you’re anything like me.  You will cringe every time you have to apologize for the look of your coin.  Here is my scudzy 9/8 with the really cool broken planchet.  Click the photos for a better look, if you dare.

The Collectable Clash

I like die clash markings.  No getting around it, I’m fascinated by the “extra design elements” on the coin.  There isn’t a date in the Victoria series that doesn’t have a visible clash on some coins.  I can’t keep them all, so what’s collectable?  For me it’s the unusual ones.

I stumbled on clashes by accident.  I wasn’t looking for them but they just started to pop out at me.  Knowing where to look is the key to finding cool ones.  Knowing where to look comes from knowing how a clash occurs .  Let’s explore that first and then move on to the cool stuff.

We all know how dies clash together, the planchet fails to show up between the dies when the striking motion occurs.  This can impart design elements from one die to the other.  The operative word here is “can”.  Even if design elements are transferred, they can be polished out of the dies or just plain worn out with use.  So what do I mean by the phrase “can be transferred”? 

Thinking this through a bit leads us to consider the designs on the dies, and what happens when they come together.  First, the dies design elements are mirror images of what we see on the coin.  Second, what is raised on the coin is incuse on the die.  When the dies strike a planchet with appropriate force, the metal on the planchet flows into the incuse areas of the dies creating the raised elements of the coin.  When the two dies come together without a planchet in between, there are 3 possible outcomes:

1.       Field to field - Since no design elements are present, no design is transferred

2.       Design to design - Since both elements are incuse there is nothing to transfer

3.       Design to field – Ah, now something happens.  The field from one die flows into the incuse area of the other die creating a raised element in the field of the first die.

Since the resulting new element is a raised spot, or high point, in the field on the die, it will impart an incuse element on the coins produced after the clash of the dies.  The results are the markings I look for.  The real cool ones I keep. 

So what is there to look for and where do you need to look?  Since the design elements of a die are mirror images of what is on a coin, we need to think in mirror image to visualize the impact areas on a coin.  Look in the fields of the coin for these incuse design elements.  The two overlay graphics below will help you peg the areas to look for and what design elements you can expect.  You will often need to tilt the coin back and forth against a fixed light source in the same manner that you would check for luster.  This will cause a clash to “pop”.  Start looking for cool die clashes to add to your variety collection.  You’ll be surprised at what you will find.

I had originally published the photographs of clash examples used below in the CN Journal , Vol. 53 Number 2, March 2008.

Potential reverse element locations on the obverse side of a coin due to a clash. These will only be in the fields.

Potential obverse element locations on the reverse side of a coin due to a clash. These will only be in the fields.

Reverse bead clash between head and obverse bead line.  This is fairly common.

Obverse head clash just under the bead line. This is fairly common.

Throat and chin clash.  Note how it wraps the 6.  These are less common.

Forehead and nose clash on the right, bun clash on the left.  These are less common.

E and T clashes.  E sticking out of the forehead, the T from the nose and lips. These are fairly scarce.

Obverse beads and lettering in the leaf and vine line.  This particular one is quite scarce.

Variety of the Month – 1899’s

I hadn’t thought that much about 1899’s until several of us were working on the large cent variety section in the Charlton Standard Catalogue of Canadian Coins, 65^th edition, 2011.  All the cool action for this date is on the reverse, and all of it is associated with the final 9 in the date.  Three 9/9 over-punches can be easily seen with a 10 x loupe.  Two are dramatic and the third more subtle.  All are collectable and considered reasonably scarce but not rare.  Expect to pay a modest premium, perhaps up to double trends, when you find them in stock from knowledgeable seller.

The first 9/9 shows evidence at the bottom left and is the remnant of at least two previous attempts at placing the 9 before finally settling on its original position.  This is the most dramatic offset of the three different examples of 9/9 for this date.

The second 9/9 shows evidence directly below the 9.  This is a single re-punch.

Finally the third more subtle 9/9 shows on the right at the bottom.  This is clearly the least amount of offset for the 9/9.

In addition to these, the font style of the final 9 can be different as well.  The final 9 can be much thinner, shaped a bit different and generally more delicate than the first 9 in the date.  This one is fairly common. This I’ll let you discover on your own, the others are pictured below.  

These original photographs were first published in A Charlton Standard Catalogue, Canadian Coins, Volume One, Numismatic Issues 2011, 65th Edition., W. K. Cross editor, and are published here with permission.

Happy Hunting!

Figure 1: 9/9 shows below to the left.

Figure 2: The 9/9 shows directly below with a nice offset

Figure 3: The 9/9 shows modestly at the bottom right.

Cherry Picking According to Jack.......... (Collecting Griffin Rarities)

It’s really hard to be a Canadian large cent variety collector without knowing about Jack Griffin.  Jack was a long time collector and researcher from rural southern Ontario.  He was meticulous about documenting the detail he saw on various coins in his note books and on his 2x2 holders.  In 1992, Jack’s work was published with the assistance of Brian Cornwell as “Some Die Varieties of the Large Cents of British North America and Canada”.  This monograph listed almost 1,000 different die varieties spanning 1858-1920 for Canadian material and including Provincial ½ and cent issues as well.  This original work is hard to find but it is out there.  A couple of years back The Charlton Press republished the work in 3 separate monographs including photographs of a number of the varieties to aid in identification.

To be sure, Jacks work was not a complete variety catalog and he never sought to promote it as such.  The fact that the title says “Some” indicates that the publication of his notes was a snapshot in time.  His work did however serve to jump start variety collecting which had stalled after Hans Zoell’s efforts of the 1960’s.  New varieties are discovered all the time.  The definitive work on this is not yet written.  There are currently several researchers that are systematically picking away at uncovering and documenting die varieties. 

The top three questions on any variety collectors mind, in no particular order, are;

1. What is it?
2. How difficult is it to find?
3. What’s it worth?

Without making further comments on the limitations of the publications of Jacks work, he addresses the first two questions but not the third.  He documents his observations and gave each die variety a rarity rating

Griffin’s rarity scale was 1=very common to 10=extremely rare.  For reference here, 4=scarce, 7=almost rare, 8=rare.  He never used level 9 or 10.  Jack listed a mere twelve die varieties at rarity 7 and a further six at rarity 8.  The following table sums up what Jack felt were Canadian large cents with a rarity rating of 7 and 8 between the years of 1858 and 1901.  I personally use Turners more up to date reference for the 1858’s and 1859/8’s.  Several of these were featured in the 65^th Edition of the Charlton Standard Catalog of Canadian Coins.

Just for reference, Jack lists the rarity for a 1859 DP#1 as a 6, the 1859 DP#2 as a 4 and the 1884 Obverse one as a 6.  Happy Hunting .

Rarity	Year	Comments
8	1859	Small date with a slight 5/5. ONE CENT looks smaller
7	1859/8	1 in the date is re-punched and shifted left
7	1859/8	Narrow 9/8 with a slight 5/5 as well
7	1859/8	Narrow over wide.  8 re-punched and 5 re-cut
7	1859	Tall slim 5 over shorter 5 with a great amount of offset. O in ONE is re-cut
7	1859	The N in CENT is re-cut showing at the top and bottom
7	1859	The T in CENT is not filled in at the top, also at the foot
8	1881	Single serif N in CANADA and REGINA, same style as in 1876
8	1881	Die clash of obverse beads on the reverse in the leaf 8 and 9 position
7	1890	Die clash of reverse 0 under Victoria’s chin and beads under bust truncation
8	1893	9/9/9